Another new Yoyo application: Siever

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Dirk Broer
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#1 Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Dirk Broer » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:53 pm

A new application can be selected in the project preferences, Siever. 64-bit Windows only so far.
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Hal Bregg
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#2 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Hal Bregg » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:16 pm

I gave this project a shot on my Linux PC and I'm disappointed by the amount of credit awarded for successful work. For example one task took over 8 hrs to crunch, 2,044.25 points were claimed and only 599.06 were given? Why?
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#3 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by davidBAM » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:39 pm

I was equally unimpressed with M-Queens https://tsbt.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=13798

I'll be off this project like snow off a dyke as soon as the FB sprint happens. I am only running it as I can bunker yoyo speculatively for a month ahead
I think this is fool-proof but could you just try it for me please? • There are 10 types of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don’t
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#4 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Hal Bregg » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:47 pm

davidBAM wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:39 pm
I was equally unimpressed with M-Queens https://tsbt.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=13798

I'll be off this project like snow off a dyke as soon as the FB sprint happens. I am only running it as I can bunker yoyo speculatively for a month ahead
I completely don't understand this whole BOINC credit system. Amicable Numbers pays shit loads per one WU, same with Collatz and probably PrimeGrid by looking at project's stats. Why not attract more users by paying bit more considering some tasks are very lengthy.

Speaking of M-Queens, I didn't even try to finish single task. I was put off but time needed to complete WU and short deadlines.
I will only let Cruncher app to run on old Android phone. I don't get much points for it but at least "no maintenance" is required for this device.

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#5 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by davidBAM » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:04 pm

I totally agree Hal

I simply don't understand why all projects can't pay a consistent amount based on GFlopHrs - they already have a "Estimated computation size" in GFlops for both cpu and gpu projects. How hard can it be?

And, yes of course, a GPU will pay much higher than a CPU because it does more work (and costs a helluva lot more per-thread to buy and run)
I think this is fool-proof but could you just try it for me please? • There are 10 types of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don’t
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#6 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Bryan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:22 pm

[mention]Hal Bregg[/mention] this is an ancient topic and has been going around every since GPU crunching 1st came out. Credit Screw, which Yoyo uses, was David Anderson's approach to "socialized" crunching. If he totally had his way it wouldn't matter if you were running a single Pentium computer or a 2990WX Threadripper you would get paid the same :lol:

There are projects I only run if I have to because of the credits (ODLK, ODLK1) immediately come to mind.
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#7 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Hal Bregg » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:57 pm

Bryan wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:22 pm
@Hal Bregg this is an ancient topic and has been going around every since GPU crunching 1st came out. Credit Screw, which Yoyo uses, was David Anderson's approach to "socialized" crunching. If he totally had his way it wouldn't matter if you were running a single Pentium computer or a 2990WX Threadripper you would get paid the same :lol:

There are projects I only run if I have to because of the credits (ODLK, ODLK1) immediately come to mind.
Bear in mind Bryan that I am fairly new to world of BOINC and to be honest I didn't do any deeper research into credit system. I will sound stupid or unthought but here it is

You said that there would be no much difference between Pentium and Threadripper which would suggest that there is no difference in computational power between those two. So if there is no difference, it would indicate that benchmarking employed in BOINC is outdated or not written properly.

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#8 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by scole of TSBT » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:11 pm

Hal Bregg wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:57 pm
Bryan wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:22 pm
@Hal Bregg this is an ancient topic and has been going around every since GPU crunching 1st came out. Credit Screw, which Yoyo uses, was David Anderson's approach to "socialized" crunching. If he totally had his way it wouldn't matter if you were running a single Pentium computer or a 2990WX Threadripper you would get paid the same :lol:

There are projects I only run if I have to because of the credits (ODLK, ODLK1) immediately come to mind.
Bear in mind Bryan that I am fairly new to world of BOINC and to be honest I didn't do any deeper research into credit system. I will sound stupid or unthought but here it is

You said that there would be no much difference between Pentium and Threadripper which would suggest that there is no difference in computational power between those two. So if there is no difference, it would indicate that benchmarking employed in BOINC is outdated or not written properly.
Hal, there are no stupid questions. Project admins have the option to use the Credit New method or using other options. Some projects award credit generously while others not so much. Credit New is an odd animal. On some projects it will pay handsomely for a short period of time but after that it will level off to "normal" credit. As for the Pentium Vs. Threadripper, Bryan meant if the David Anderson, one of the founders of BOINC, had his way there would be little credit difference but there was a little sarcasm/exaggeration aimed toward David Anderson.
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#9 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Bryan » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:10 am

Well maybe just a little bit of sarcasm :lol:

Hal, the original intent of the credit system was that it would be the same cross-project. Meaning regardless of which project you ran computer X would make about the same credits on any of them. They had a "reference" machine and the credits on the projects all used that type of machine to establish the credit level so things remained relatively on par.

Then along came GPUs and things deteriorated fairly quickly. The GPUs could out produce CPUs by a big margin so the credits granted were raised accordingly. The people who had GPUs thought it was great and the people who didn't have GPUs screamed bloody murder.

The ultimate was a project called Bitcoin Utopia that used dedicated mining asics and paid credits accordingly. It was no problem to get 1B credits/day :twisted: That single project basically destroyed any thoughts of parity across all projects.

It costs the projects nothing to grant credits ... either high or low. Since I'm a badge hunter and try to reach certain personal goals (based on credits) then I try to avoid the really low paying projects. But by the same token when I reach a goal I stop crunching high paying projects also.

Your question was NOT dumb by any means. There just isn't a SMART answer to it ... it has been an on going hot topic since the beginning. There will never be cross project parity. It is what it is. :-)
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#10 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Cruncher Pete » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:00 am

Whilst the replies in this topic has not much to do with Yoyo Siever but has a lot to do how we feel about credits, I might as well put my two cents worth here as well. Another thing to consider is that some projects have a private server only with limited capability and they should never have joined Boinc for they just can't handle the multitude of users uploading and downloading at the same time. Some don't even have a sufficiently large Hard drive or drives to keep up. I started in this game because I was hoping to help solve the cure for cancer, etc and got hooked on credits. Accordingly, like Bryan I will only crunch a project if it gives reasonable credits or I need it for position on the ladder or for badges. Needless to say if the Team is in a project challenge that is what I will crunch. Overall, fun is the name of the game and in the end the projects will win for it costs them nothing. I wish they would pay my Electricity Bill for 15 Computers that otherwise I would not have..
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#11 Re: Another new Yoyo application: Siever

Unread post by Hal Bregg » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:31 am

Sorry guys for going off topic. And thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Like Bryan said above "There just isn't a SMART answer to it" so let's close this topic and get back to crunching.

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